CHOG Migration

Have you migrated?

2012-01-23T10:31:00.004-05:00

I realized a couple weeks ago that I still have this blog. Funny, but sad at the some time.

Perhaps we've all moved on from this discussion. "We get already! The world's change! We should be doing ministry different, gosh!"

I get it. The intellectual impact I'm sure is long past. Or is it? Maybe the shock of it. But has that knowledge [That we can no longer do ministry the same way that's we've done it] converted into motion?

Honestly for me it hasn't much. In my personal life it has. In areas of ministry that I had the say it shifted. Not the whole course of my ministry, and certainly not the course of the churches I've served. My many measures that would make me a failure. I'm ok with that.

I really had hope that old and new wineskins could coexist in the same space. But think about it, you can't graft a new piece or a new section on a wineskin and expect to hold wine in there. If we're talking agriculture you can. But at this moment in the church we're still talking buildings and machinery, not fields and plants.

So if you're reading this and you don't know what to do. Right now, schedule a half day of prayer, not at your church or home. Ask God to show you needs in your community, and ask him what should should do about it. Have some conversations with your people. You're good at that right? [Hope so.] Ask them the same questions. As time goes on actually do some of those things.

Do we need to move and live in different ways? Do we need to teach the people in our churches to live and move in different ways and go to different places? Do we need to take our ministries to different streets, businesses, schools and homes that we haven't? YES please, like yesterday! Please feel the urgency. But as Coach Wooden said "Go quick but don't hurry." This kind of change takes time. It's ok to let things simmer. Today, move in a new direction if you haven't already.

There's a few book I think might be helpful. Try: Missional Map-Making by Roxburgh, They Like Jesus But Not the Church by Kimball, and Youth Ministry 3.0 by Ostriecher. Or, you can buy me a cup of coffee and we can chat.

Now this is church migration!

2010-02-04T09:49:00.003-05:00

Check out this article that is on the front page of USA Today.

A church in the Atlanta area is buying and moving an old, closed church that's in Buffalo NY. What cometary on the shifting sands of culture and the church.

Read the whole story here.

1441

2009-03-10T15:48:00.003-04:00

No that's not the year I'm going to reference. Rather it's the amount of days that this blog has been in existance. 1441 days today.

Not sure if there's many of us still around that were in on that first con

vo in David Carney's living room in Lansing 4 years ago. Here's the first post.

So I wonder how we've all migrated. We aren'

t the same people that we were in 2005.

How have you migrated your life,

your ministry,

to the changing world?

For those of us in that living room, those that have joined this and other conversations like it, I know we have asked ourselves questions these type of questions. Some of us have found answers. Some of those answers are unpopular at best. I hope you are all still in persuit of how we can speak/live/embody The Gospel of Jesus to emerging generations.

May God show you how to migrate today, tomorrow and in the days to come. May He give you a missionaries heart. May you continue to move. Peace.

Devoted Follower or Missionary?

2008-12-19T09:19:00.000-05:00

I moved this from a comment posted by Ken W. Ken, I think it deserves a full post as aposed to a comment.

"With Advent upon us, I find myself re-orienting my personal study time to the story of the nativity. What strikes me this year is the realization that our God is a sending God. Luke says, "In the sixth month, God SENT the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town of Galilee (Luke 1: 26). That got everything started. God's act of SENDING Gabriel, SENT Mary to the hill country of Judah, where she received confirmation from Elizabeth; "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!" (Luke 1: 42). The angel's SENT by God, appear to the shepherds and announce, "Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord!" (Luke 2: 11). Jesus in his inaugural sermon in the synagogue in Nazareth said, "The spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has SENT me to proclaim freedom to the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor. (Luke 4: 18 – 19). This sending theme is a hall mark of Jesus' ministry. He gathered twelve disciples around him and gave them power and authority to exercise the kingdom of God and "he SENT them out to preach the kingdom of God and heal the sick." (Luke 9:2). "After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and SENT them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. (Luke 10:1). In his final conversation with the disciples before leaving this earth he SENDS them out again, saying, "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19 – 20)

God is a sending God! In his sending He changed the course of history. He sent his Son to earth. He and the Son sent the Holy Spirit. He and the Son and the Holy Spirit have sent persons in the world to fulfill the kingdom of God. These sent ones are authentic followers missionaries of Christ who live out kingdom values in the world.

I may have just stumbled on a key insight for the church. My first draft of the above sentence (as you can see) was "these sent ones are authentic followers of Christ who live out kingdom values in the world." There if a big difference between seeing yourself as a "follower" of Christ and a "missionary" of Christ. A follower follows! He/she waits for the leader to lead, and then they follow. I believe for the vast majority of the church today following does not necessarily mean one is being sent anywhere. Missionaries on the other hand have a very different focus. They see themselves as being sent. They are sent with a message from the sender. They expect to learn the language of the people they are going to and interpret the message for them in their language.

So,

If we see ourselves as missionaries, how would this perception change the way we function? Well great question, (if I do say so myself), I am not sure I have the answer to the question, but it appears to me it is an important question we must answer if we are going to see the kingdom of God become a reality in our midst. So let me begin by listing a few characteristics of missionaries and perhaps you can add to the list or make it better:

Missionaries are called to a lifestyle not just to attend a few functions at church. Missionaries have an adventuresome spirit.
Missionaries enjoy other cultures rather than criticize them. Missionaries study the culture they are going to in order to make the gospel relevant to the culture. Missionaries move to the "foreign" country they are trying to reach, they don't expect the "foreign" country to move to them.
Missionaries expect to see the kingdom God expressed through miracles. Missionaries count it a privilege to serve often at great sacrifice. Missionaries are often willing to leave family and friends temporarily to reach their mission field.

Now, that I think about it the church has fulfilled its mission, at least the ones I read in their bulletins. The standard mission statement printed on the back panel of the bulletin, reads, "To make fully devoted followers of Christ". I think most followers would say they are devoted and following to the best of their ability.

But,

If we are going to become authentic missionaries of Christ it is going to take more than changing a word in the mission statement, or, adding another program to the church calendar. Becoming authentic missionaries of Christ means as individuals we change how we think and function. I believe it begins with changing how we view ourselves as devoted followers to authentic missionaries of Jesus Christ. What do you think? How will thinking of ourselves as missionaries change what we do?"

Catalyst 1 Day - Goeschel 2

2008-12-17T14:55:00.003-05:00

this is the third post about Catalyst One Day if you're lost.

Before I jump into Craig Groeschel talk #2 I want to mention a Q & A that he and Andy Stanely did before lunch. It was awesome, to have them ask each other stuff. I didn't catch it all, but here are the one's I did catch. I think these were enough for me to chew on so I stopped.

Q Craig: When you teach it always seems fresh. How do you keep personal spiritual momentum?

A Andy: I just spend most of my time there. I spend most of my time in my giftednes. The more time you spend outside of your giftedness less time you have for the most important things, and the more drained you'll be.

Q Andy: When do you go multi-site?

A Craig: 1. when you've absolutely maximized your space. 2. to go out and be missional. Do something somewhere that others arent. 3. a partnership with others who can't. (Craig partners with other church's with his sermons.)

Creating Personal Spiritual Momentum

Genesis 31: 43-44

[underlined words were blanks in the notes.]

I will do today what I can do , to enable me to do tomarrow waht I can't do today.

If you want to make movies someday go out and shoot today with your Sony handicam. No you may not have what you need, but you'll never get the oppertunities if you're not any good at it.

Four Things To Do Today

1. Do somthing to defat you dark side.

Craig's if fear of not enough. He saw that his church wasn't being generous and he was upset by that then God told him he wasn't being generous. He was giving more tithing, but his heart wasn't generous. He even has a polocy at his church, if you need some money go ahead and take back out of the offering plate. No one will say anyting to you. (That is awesome!)

I thought of something when he was talking about this. He's over compensated, he's become really generous. I thought of Batman. As a boy he was afraid of bats. when he became a ninja, he learned to master his fear, so much so, that he used it to fight evil.

2. Create artificial ministry deadlines.

artificial deadlines force you to:

*make faster decisions

*Intentionally delegate

* disregard unimportant activities

3. Delegate what someone else can do

* don't deleagate responsibilities. delegate authority.

(wow, have I really learned that this one is true. to see the look on someone's face when You tell them that it's they're ship to stear.)

*delegating responsibilities creates followers.

*delegating authority creates leaders.

4. Do somthing only you can do.

1. you're the only one who can care for yourself.

*care for yourself with refreshing activities. (LOL, hobbies or personal life when you're in ministry? Craig's right guys!)

*care for yourself by taking time off. (Ministry is busy and you're gone or busy certain times of the year. you know when it's coming, plan time off after those busy times.)

* care for yourself by spending time with God.

*care for yourself by eating right and exercising.

2. You're the only one who can lead your ministry.

3. you're the only one who can do somehting that privatley honors Christ to you.

4. You're the only one who can be a husband/wife to your wife/husband or daddy/mommy to your kids.

in the Q & A after Craig spoke he talked abou his schedule. He leaves the office at 3.45 every day and heads to the gym.

Someone in our group asked a great question after that session: "so he leaves then, when does his staff leave? Sometimes the leaders, get to leave but the support staff have to stay if the work isn't done. I would ask him that question if I had a chance.

catalyst 1-day [groeschel]

2008-12-08T12:54:00.001-05:00

here’s some notes from another of the sessions that we experienced at the 1-day conference…

craig’s session was addressing how we think in relation to what we do. some good mental gymnastics on why we do what we do & how to get our “thinking” to the next level so that our “doing” truly matters & has impact.

5 places we need to “re-think”
think differently about…
…your church CULTURE
…PROGRAMMING
…the MISSION
…people LEAVING the church
…LIMITATIONS

…the church CULTURE
if we’re always putting the blame of what’s going on in the church we’re serving we’re simply not doing our job. to some degree people are stubborn & will have difficulty moving into new directions. however, some of the cultural issues are yours as the leader.
LEADERSHIP QUESTION: what am i doing as a leader to change & redirect the culture?

…PROGRAMMING
so much of what we do in life [work, school, family, church] is built around what we’re “doing”. are we making the grade, producing enough, meeting quotas, providing the right programs?
is it possible that we need to scale back all the ‘suff’ that we’re doing [& doing half-way] & focus on a couple of things that we can do well; i mean really well?
the axiom says “if we do more, we can reach more”
i’m becoming less & less convinced that it’s not true.

…the MISSION & people LEAVING the church
so many times the mind-set is that we don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings because they might just get up & go to another church. anyone felt this way or heard this said?? yes, i see that hand.
the biggest problem here is that when we begin to become so focused/concerned on those who are considering leaving because the music isn’t just right, or they didn’t get to have a leading role in something & or they just don’t like the way that another is leading – when they become the focus of the leaders we’ve lost sight of the mission.
it almost seems like we’ve become focused on the pharisees & have forgotten about the tax collectors & prostitutes.
Jesus seems pretty clear on this issue. he says, in 21century language, “I’m going this way. if you want to be with Me come on.” he doesn’t seem real concerned with trying to chase down those who don’t want to be involved.
the other thing that pops up here is this notion that if people leave our church we can’t possibly grow. that is a soiled notion!
i heard, quite while ago now, that who is ON the team is as important as who is NOT on the team.
that is to say that there are some that simply are not going to help the cause reach it’s potential & are going to drag their feet at every turn.
help them find a place that they’re going to be happy & productive.

…LIMITATIONS
we often see the possibilities around us as hurdles & impossibilities instead of places that God can move. the churches we serve will often cast a dream as “we can’t do ______, because we don’t have ______”
our job in changing the mindset is to get them to say “we can do _____, because we don’t have _____ obstacles to overcome.”

so, loads of good stuff. too much to put into just a couple of postings here.

is anyone considering catalyst in the ATL for next fall? i’m definitely on-board & would be interested in sharing hotel or vehicle costs. let me know!

Catalyst One Day 1

2008-11-23T22:58:00.003-05:00

You've probably heard of the Catalyst Conference. In true trail blazing fashoin as you'd expect from Catalyst comes Catalyst One Day. A paired down "accoustic" version. The venue I and some other ChOGers went to [5 others from Saint Joseph, Dave and Nate from Ithica, Lynette from Muskegun, and a few other familar faces that I don't recall at the moment] was Granger Community Church. I guess there were around 1100 there, which is paired down from The Gwinnett Center in ATL. Which holds about 10,000.

This post is a synopsis from the first main session with Andy Stanley. His talk was called "Gaining and Sustaining Momentum." He hung on 3 words, New, Improved and Improving.

New: New things always trigger momentum. People want to check out the new thing, they just do. New events can be posetive or negative. They can also cause posetive or negative results. One time he had in this section of the notes is "Negative circumstances are the fretile soil for a burst of positive momentum." In organizations momentum can be created by new leadership, new direction, new programs. These three thing can help you when evealuating something that lack momentum. This thought hit home with me "Momentum is never triggered by tweaking something old. it is triggered by introducing soemthing new. Minor improrvments in something old will not create momentum."

Improved: "The new must be a noticeable imporvement over the old." this must be a signifacant change in order for it to create momentum.

Improving: "momentum is sustained thourgh constant imporvement" He said it's important to build into your system or organization the imporving of that system or organization.

Momemtum stoppers: "diengaged leader, overactive manegment, complacency, complexity, a breach of trust" Complexity hit home with me. He also said that complexity grows with age. 2009 is our 100 aniversery as a church. the management point hit home too. We tend to like thing neat and tiddy and he said that there needs to be some messiness for creativity and space for God to work. [Caordic is a word that's been typed here before I believe, that's what he was after I think.]

another takeaway was somthing he said about the people that work with us or our congregations. If people are behaving in ways that we don't like, ask your self, what systems have we created that foster that behavior?

All in all a good talk. Andy is on my short list of speakers. Every time I've heard him speak he's really hit home. I really apprecaite his openness and honest to share his mistakes and what he's sturggled with.

On thing I really liked about this format is a Q & A after every talk. They got to expand or clarify and points that they talked about. I didn't realize that there were pages in the Catalyst One Day booklet for that too.

What is your take on this?

2008-10-01T13:49:00.004-04:00

Have you heard of Christian Yoga? A friend of mine has taken a class, but haven't asked him much about it. I'm familar with the concept at least. Check out this site and tell me what you're take is.

http://www.christianyoga.us/home.htm

Just when you thought you know what were were all talking about

2008-09-26T23:23:00.005-04:00

Andrew Jones AKA Tall Skinny Kiwi, posted about "the demise of the term" emgerging or its other variations. Just when you thought you knew what the emergent church was, here we go again. Hey no one (except me) is saying "Da Bomb" anymore. ("That is so '94!") Ideas and terms come and go. Its just like what happend to Aternative Rock. It was a movement that pushed Rock music forward. It's the same thing. The experimentors of church and culture are bored by the term now that it's a mainstream word. Maybe in 100 years my great grand kid will say "Ya, may Great Grandpa was part of 'The Great Emergence.'" Who knows. Next! Check out Andrew's post.

a couple of good books...

2008-07-07T10:07:00.003-04:00

hey readers...

i'm working through a couple of good books. i just posted a review on my blog & would be interested in having some dialog. if you've not read either of them i highly recommend you do so!

anyhow, hope summer is going well for you all!

keep the conversation going!

IYC anyone?

2008-06-14T11:15:00.002-04:00

I don't know how many of you out there will be at International Youth Convention, but it would be a good time to gather face to face.

I looked at the schedule and it looks like maybe Monday night during the Late Night stuff, or Tuesday during the YMI lunch, or Late Night. Those will get us started. I will be getting in Sunday Night, so another option for me would be would Monday afternoon since my group will probably have free time then.

post your preferences please.

our "friend" Reggie

2008-05-21T23:11:00.003-04:00

Reggie McNeal, who spoke at the National Convention a couple years ago, continues to talk about our view of church. Here's some videos of him. Here's Hamo of Backyard Missionary's take on it.

HT: Hamo

valuable traditions re-worked...

2008-03-26T09:10:00.005-04:00

ok - so much of me is bent toward what is new and fresh. but i've also realized that i will gravitate to the redemption & revitalization of the old. example: i love the use of old buildings for new things. my wife says that if i had it my way we'd be living in a burned out old mattress factory. she's not far off. if only there were such a building in rural mid-michigan.

i digress -

i'd like to hear if there are any of you that are re-working the foot washing/communion gathering on maundy-thursday. we had one, but it was the usual poor attendance & little excitement connected to the experience [i'm not suggesting that we ought to be doing cartwheels as we enter, but...].

is there a way to re-invent the practice while keeping the mental picture that Christ shapes as giving of ourselves for others, taking a servant roll, loosing life in order to gain it.

what did you do? if nothing, how can it be re-invented to grab meaning & the attention of the church again?

time

2008-03-22T23:31:00.003-04:00

Hope you all have a wonderful Easter (starting in a few minutes.)

I was just looking back and realized that this blog has been around for more than 3 years now. Man, has the time flown. March 9th, 2005 was the first post. I"m putting that in my calendar.

peace.

Speaking of the UK

2008-02-08T11:51:00.000-05:00

Here is the Archbishop Rowan Williams giving his thoughts on new expressions of church, and how the old and new can work together. More in article form. His thoughts near the end of the clip below are really where my heart, and calling is for the church. [Both conventional/institutional and grassroots/incarnational, vibrantly continuing/being bonified and supported by the conventional church] This is a real gem to me.

HT: tallskinnykiwi

Ash Wednesday: Tangible Worship in the Free Church Tradition

2008-02-06T12:47:00.000-05:00

Although the snow has trumped it, we had great plans for an Ash Wednesday service tonight at our church, complete with ashes on the forehead and everything. This is mostly unprecedented, at least in recent history, at our church. We decided, however, that it fits with our theory of trying to use tangible traditions in our worship gatherings. Our thinking is that worship is wonderful through the spoken word and the music, but the tangible expressions of worship that have existed in the church for a couple thousand years might just be a good addition, as well.

In particular, we take a break from our usually-separate children and adult worship times once a month to worship together and share communion - perhaps one of the most tangible worship practices (breaking bread, crushing grapes, chewing bread, drinking juice) as well as baptisms when they happen (another very physical, tangible worship practice). For kids who can't read, can't see the screen, or can't understand complex worship metaphors, this is a very good learning tool.

The problem, of course, is that as we start to tap the historic Church liturgy for tangible expressions of worship like this, we get into genuflex, veneration and lots of other Roman Catholic practices which seem "iffy" at best. And in a free church holiness tradition, do these things, or the liturgical calendar, have any place at all? Are we betraying our forefathers who saw idolatry in liturgical worship structure and practices? Having grown up in a more traditional denomination (though not much more), I'm interested in hearing your opinions on these sorts of practices in corporate worship within our "free church" tradition....

A thesis on sarcasm

2008-02-05T12:04:00.000-05:00

I’ve have some concerns about the level of sarcasm I’m hearing these days. You hear it on TV, at school, in homes, and recently I’ve been hearing it in church. Why has pretending to be mean to someone suddenly become so “cool”? People today believe it’s okay to say anything, that it makes everything better if you add “just kidding,” to the end of everything. For those that have a tough time deciphering sarcasm, we don’t know if the words you are saying are just a joke or if you’re speaking the truth.
So I’ve decided to look up some scripture about “speech,” as the word sarcasm isn’t really in the concordance. The first scripture reference I noticed was familiar, because it’s painted on the wall of our Sunday School room in HUGE letters. 1 Timothy 4:12 - Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers IN SPEECH, life, love, faith and purity. So as our youth who regularly attend our church use sarcasm with each other, what kind of example are they setting? What do visitors to our ministry see?
Sarcasm can tear people down piece by piece. My mother used it on me many times, and to this day I can remember what she said word for word, and how it made me feel. When Bart Simpson was emerging during my teenage years, I told my mom “Don’t’ have a cow.” Her response to me, jokingly of course, was “ I had you.” When I said, “Can’t you take a joke?” she said “I took you.” (My therapist tells me that in reality, it wasn’t very funny. ) The sad thing is, can imagine the kids in our youth group coming back with those kind of retorts, all in the name of coolness.
So how should we talk to others? Ephesians 4:32 tells us to be “kind and compassionate.”
Also, Ephesians 4:29 says, “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth, but only what is helpful for building others up, according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.” Are the words coming out of our mouths building others up or tearing them down? Do we get to know people well enough, listen to them enough, to know what their needs are? What truth are others hearing when words come out of our mouths? In addition, Ephesians 4:25 tells us “Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body.” If the things we are “joking“ about aren‘t true, should we be saying them at all? Lastly, Ephesians 5:1 says, “But should there be no obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which is out of place, but rather thanksgiving.” This scripture would lead me to believe that there is no place for sarcasm in the church.
So I realize how I need to talk to people. I want to remember to tell the kids in our youth group that I love them, that I’m proud of their accomplishments, that I believe that they can live this Christian life and make a difference in this world. I want to tell them that they are meant for so much more than what this world is offering them. I never want them to doubt how valuable they are, that they are worth so much that the God of all creation, the ruler of everything, would die for them, yearn for a relationship with them, because HE LOVES THEM. I want to speak the truth in love.

interesting take on experimental ministry

2008-01-31T22:29:00.000-05:00

Johnny Baker pointed to a wiki site of a cool way to look at/try new types of ministry. Check out Church on the Edge's about page. Apparently they are working in "rural" Britain. That would be a new mode of things that are emerging/21st century. All the stuff that I've seen about new types of ministry are urban. Have any of you seen anything other than urban? Take a ganger, its very interesting!

HT: Johnny Baker

the davos question

2008-01-24T15:56:00.000-05:00

i was just on andrew jones [tallskinnykiwi] blog & he connected to the davos question. i had never heard of this before but am curious to find out more.

the video posting through YouTube, from people all around the globe, are pretty interesting. the summit, held in davos, switzerland is going on right now [jan.23 - 27]. it'll be interesting to see what comes out of this kind of discussion.

edit Randy:
here's what Rick Warren had to say

Here's what Bono had to say

Henry Kissinger {He's still alive?}

staub log

2008-01-21T15:27:00.000-05:00

there is a resource that i became aware of a number of years ago & have continued to subscribe to it's weekly e-newsletter. it's put out by dick staub called & culture watch.

the link above takes you to a recent posting he made about current, younger leadership & their relationship to the old-guard. some good thoughts about inter-connecting the generations & a sense of learning from one another.

dick is a seattle-based writer who's time is spent identifying the quest of american spiritual quest & how it is often un-linked from the church.

so a couple of ?'s for this:

how do we celebrate the new & fresh without trampling the by-gone era?

i'm fully behind the idea that the best stuff is still yet to come. but how do we make sure that we're not running ruf-shod over those that have come before us?

non-negotiables

2008-01-09T09:53:00.000-05:00

Has anyone caught the Young Life debacle, forcing all staff to sign a statement that shores up and protects the threats of neo-orthodox theology? Well, a few YL leaders in North Carolina refused to sign it, and they were given the ax! Many folks have weighed in on this, from Marko, Tony Jones, Christian Century, Christianity Today, etc. I will link Tony Jones for you, and that will get you everywhere else.

Meanwhile, what are your thoughts? Do you have any threats of shoring up theological boundaries in your circle? Ever felt you could lose your job, if you didn't "sign" on?

More specifically, how do you evangelize? Do you utilize a linear approach, or do you cast your sail?

thanks for the recap marko

2008-01-02T23:07:00.000-05:00

I was catching up on my googlereader feeds and I saw a recap from Mark Oestreicher from Youth Specialties. I caught THIS Willow-esque confession.... oh, just about a year late. Thanks for the year in review MarkO. I would have missed it. I stopped going to YS conventions because of what he's talking about. I'm glad they're going in a different direction. It seemed to me that they were based on the books that they were hyping in the catalog.

amen

2007-12-20T13:18:00.000-05:00

Have you heard one of Kid Rock's songs off his new album Rock-N-Rock Revival? It's called Amen. You can hear it on the radio or his homepage kidrock.com. Heads up: I'm not sure this is the radio version that plays on his website, so be aware of the the ears around you. Go give it a listen sometime. I find myself Amening most of the song. "Rock" is onto something. But beware you may want to shut him down right away because he's says "stop being so up tight when I get high." and he calls us "wolves in sheep-clothes pastors." I guess what I'm saying is don't prove him right. Most of the things that he mentions in this song are things that Jesus showed and told us what he thinks about. Things that Jesus wants us to do something about. He talks about Jesus too, "...so one day you'll stand hand in hand with the truth." [hello John 14:6!]

I bet some of you have a gut reaction right now that is telling you that I would condone his lifestyle, or all his music. No I won't be buying this album. Most of his songs are about getting high or drunk or sleeping around. Things that I don't live for. I'm just pointing out an issue we need to face: God is at work in people and places that are dirty and broken. [Reference to a chapter from Kester Brewin's book Signs of Emergence. I'll post on that next.] I'm calling into question how we see salvation and discipleship in the ways of Jesus. Is it a journey, or is it an event? Are people in or out, or is it about a spectrum of knowing God? These are things that we need to deal with. For a relative world you and I live in you can't tell someone they are straight up wrong in the first conversation you have with them and expect them to talk to you again. Let alone see Jesus in your life. Well maybe respectfully in not so many words. How many Christians do that? Most of the time we're know for what we're against, not what or who we're for. But I see that we have an opertunity here. We can talk about Truth in it's most real sense now. Before our culutre started to shift Truth was boxed into facts, linear reason, and data. Now we can talk about Truth as a person-Jesus. A broader, and more actuate view of the Truth in my opinion. We can talk about the whole Truth so help us God. Because knowing all the facts is different than knowing a person isn't it?

I wonder if anyone is engaging Kid Rock? Are there any Christ followers that have befriended him? I know that Rev Run is touring with Kid Rock so maybe. [Run as in Run-DMC, and more recently Run's House.] Back to questions. Do you have a Kid Rock in your life? How are you engaging people that don't follow Jesus? Lifeguards know how to swim and from time to time they have to get wet to save someone. Firefighters know the nature of fire and still go into burning buildings. The shooting doesn't stop so a medic can treat the wounded. Cops get shot at, and they still come back to work. Are you in the fray? Who are you engaging?

Synopsis of Signs of Emergence

2007-12-19T13:10:00.007-05:00

So I finished this book back in December, and started this post soon after that. I'd forgotten that is was there, sorry about that guys. Things have been really busy in the new year. (I've been without an assistant or an intern since then and I'm not good at handling all of it alone. Plus, when you work out of your niche it takes more time and energy than things that come natural to you.) I've meant to come back out here and respond to some comments, and post some more but I've needed deep breathing and silence more than one more thing to do.

It will be really hard for me to hone this into a small to medium size post. I underlined or bracketed large sections of the book.

Kester Brewin really got my mind going. He really has helped me get my mind around change and development as it pertains to the church. Kester brings in Fowler's Stages of Faith. Something I studied at AU, fairly reluctantly. I had a sense I would come back to Fowler. It's really ringing bells with me now. Thanks former prof Randy Litchfield. These stages are talked about throughout the book. He applies the stages to church and proposes that the Western Church overall is in stage 3 "synthetic-conventional." Loyalty to a "tribe" is key. It is often blind loyalty. I'm sure you've used the term blind faith. Brewin suggests that this is where most of us in the West are when it comes to faith and church. A large theme of the book is how a grassroots, decentralized, networked church, is a better shape for promoting growth in the flock then what we have currently. Like I said he references Flowers stages a lot.

"The concern of this book is to try to show that not only is another model possible but essential. While it is not right to force people from statge to stage, I do believe it is vital that we strongly encourage our institutions to move on from the Stage 3 in which many of them are caught. Like Fowler, I believe that if we are to impact the post-Enlightenment cultural consciousness, then we must be modeling a conjunctive faith in a conjunctive church, for it is only in such a place people for all stages can experience community and growth together. " (p33)

Part 1 comprises chapters Advent/Incarnation/Emergence. In Advent he suggest that there needs to be a pause before growth happens. That's how it happens in nature. "Shaped, not crushed; guided, not dragged."(p41) We're looking for a shaa-zam [my word] moment. In our history we have witnessed change by revolution. Kester doesn't reference this, he's English, but our country started that way. We want change and change now. He suggests that a lasting change, the kind that the church needs is by evolution not revolution. "Before the church can change, before I can change, before things change--before change, we must wait." (p45) Incarnation suggests that God himself waited, pausing still for 400ish years between the old and new testament. Only to reemerge as a baby. A new form. A new order. Not a revolutionary Messiah, a evolutionary Messiah. We like Christ must be reborn into specific times, places and cultures to be affective. (p69) Here's a great quote: "Becoming incarnate will mean the same for us as it did Christ. We will have to experience being small and defenseless, requiring nurture from our host world just as Christ needed Mary's milk. We cannot and must not remain rootless people or rootless churches. Christ needed water from the earth, food from the ground, education from his elders; yet we too often experience church as an organization that has absolutely no need for it surrounding community or area...To admit our need as a church, our dependence on our host culture, is a risk. yet like Christ we must take this risk of interdependence, this risk of being born, this risk of life." (p73-74)

Interlude: The Character of the Emergent Church. Backing up: Kester clarifies his use of emergent, emergence and Emergent. He is using it as an adjective rather than a brand name, or what we think of in the US. To his UK audience, they don't have the hang ups we have as Americans. Brewin suggest that the emerging church system is: open, learning, shared/communal information, model servant leadership, and it must be on the edge of chaos. Hirsch and Frost in The Shaping of Things to Come call this state "chaordic." Just enough scturcutre to hold it together. Hmmm, this sounds like Priddy's bell curve I learned about in the Institute for Servant Leadership (ISL). There's a great table at the end of this section that makes it all clear.

Part 2 Cites/Gift/Dirt. In Cities Brewin talks about urbanization of the world and the changes that encompasses. He also links, Cain to cities, and then to how Jesus approached the city. Cain, because of his sin began to insulate himself from nature, began commerce because he couldn't work the ground anymore. We do the same things today in our cites, we take nature, and make it into things unnatural, to insulate us from nature. [Steel, concrete, asphalt, etc, etc.] Jesus lived his life in small towns, yet he returned to "city" not to overthrow it[revolution], but change it through evolution, person to person. Networked, communal, grassroots, not top down, power broker, hierarchy. Growing cities are on the brink of chaos. Over legislated cities are dying cities. Gift is about reclaiming the art of gift. Kester points out that commodity has entered our church systems. In some places worse than others. The danger isn't when churches offer products or services to their congregations, its when they say they want nothing in return, but they get mad and brow beat when people don't give enough money or time. Dirt hit on the fact that we don't get dirty in the church much. We ask people to clean up first. There are defined lines between church people and unchurched. Have you ever heard someone say "But that's a church thing, why would I go? I'm not a church person." I don't know where I heard this first, but I've been saying for years "The church should be more like a hospital than a museum." I will amend that thought, that it should be more like a MASH tent then a hospital. Field hospitals are out there in the the mix. [Incarnate.] Jesus blurred and redefined the dirt line for us by eating and hanging out with sinners.

Here are my takeaways:
I'm getting my volume of Fowler back out that I bought and "read" in college.

I'm considering making more room in my ministry for more grassroots events to happen. I want my ministry to act and look more like a web than a line, or blocks on a calendar. Maybe something that looks more like a party, and than a youth event. Space where God can naturally use our relationships to do ministry to the broken. I am adopting the same grassroots approach for CONNECT/Small Groups and COACH/mentoring. Volunteers connect with students and they form small groups or start a mentoring relationship. In this respect I just try to play "match-maker," I don't demand or command I just suggest and pray.

You can also find more Kester at his blog: http://kester.typepad.com/signs/

[I could have blogged way more than that.]

questions over answers...

2007-12-10T09:28:00.000-05:00

hey bloggers...

i recently found an old article on the importance of questions being more important than the answers we give [many times to questions that aren't being asked]. so i decided to blog on it, thought you may be interested.

from the ledge

edit/Randy/"we'll comment over there Nate."

AdventConspiracy

2007-11-22T23:05:00.000-05:00

hey, i thought i'd shoot this out to you as a resource to consider...you may already be on the up-swing of this.

our church is getting connected to something called Advent Conspiracy. it was started last year by just a couple of churches to re-think & re-do Christmas. it's all about turning Christmas on it's head, as far as we understand it. our focus has usually been on consumerism & centered on us getting more gear. this effort is more on relationships & not bowing to the building of the "empire".

anyhow, the site tells the story much better. check it out...

where am I on this?

2007-11-15T11:26:00.000-05:00

Here is a good post by Ben Edson on communitas. I just started Exiles by Frost, so I haven't gotten to the part that Ben is talking about. Ben's last paragraph really resonates with me.

"This is where i think that my vocation is, to be a point of dialect with the communitas and normal society, between the emerging church and the church catholic. I think that this is a step on from some of the early emerging churches, who were not interested in dialect, but only communitas. This is not a a value judgement as we would not be able to have the current dialect without the earlier experiences of liminality."

I sit back and wait for good times to create a new ChOG dialect. It's hard to learn a new language, much less create a new one.

(Anyone want to right a book with me? I got one brewin.' )

ht: jonnybaker

a new book for you...

2007-11-12T09:06:00.000-05:00

here's a book that you may be interested in.

i had read a review of this book in relevant mag. & was interested. then my wife picked it up for me on sat.
a year of living biblically by a.j. jacobs. i have only just begun it. now he is not a religious guy. he says he's jewish, but jewish like the olive garden is italian. so the book's also pretty funny.

i find it interesting that so much is being written & said about spiritual/biblical/God-oriented stuff from those who wouldn't consider themselves any of those things [spiritual, biblical, God-oriented].

ChOG in MI GA 2008

2007-11-07T11:12:00.000-05:00

I think the best way to do this would be multiple posts, but I never end up doing that. So sorry I am making this a massive post, to get it over with. I will try to just report to you what my impressions were. I'm not a journalist, so here it goes.

It was another good year in MI. Jeannette Flynn was our speaker. I'll be honest, I've heard her a few times, and I haven't always liked her delivery. Although I've always liked her content. Sometimes she speaks in some sort of apologetic tone. The times that she's delivered with "authority" I've really been challenged by it. I don't think it's the tone in and of itself, it's that she has this other style that seems to me to be more affective. I'm not hatin' I'm just glad that she brought what I think as her "A game." OK, critique over on to the meat.

The theme this year was Doing Less, Being More. I was excited when I noticed the theme. This is something that I've really been trying to champion. I haven't always done well at this, but I've tried.

Session I: Jeannette started off talking about the word Missional. How this word really didn't come to be until the mid/late 90s. MS Word still "red lines" it until you add it to the dictionary. I was a little scared until she said that She wants us all to have a positive out look on that word. She then referred to the book Shaped By God's Heart by Milfred Minatrea. Great news because my new lead pastor [David Colp] has been sharing it with staff for about a month now. She shared a great truth about exploring. If you want people to build a great ship don't talk about lumber and how to build it. Show people the vastness of the sea and they'll build a great ship! She challenged us to look back at what it means to be on the mission as followers of Jesus. She framed this with John 1:35-41. Jesus asked them what they want? They then spent the day with him. Andrew, after a day with Jesus goes and tells his brother Peter "I have found the Messiah." She summed up that point by saying, we don't really know Jesus. We live life like it's salvation by works. Ouch, but true. She then told a story about her grand daughter Bethany. Jeannette picked up Bethany from preschool, and she was in the back seat singing "God hates me, God hates me." Jeannette asked her "Why are you singing that honey?" Bethany replied " my teacher told me that God doesn't love little girls who don't obey." Being missional is us knowing AND living the message of Jesus. How many times have we said things like Bethany's teachers, in an attempt to get people to do what we want then to do? The disciples and Jesus hung out all day. We just have to know what they talked about don't we? She said "We live in a world where we must get as much done as possible in the day." But Jesus said for us to remain in him. [John 15] (Jeannette almost lost me with saying "abide" rather than remain, about 30 times in that section. I got over myself and listened.) Andrew shared Jesus with his brother Peter after he spent time with Jesus. She went into prayer with this "Ministry can just about kill ya. So be in the presence of Jesus."

Session II: We are constantly in a struggle between being and doing. She began to unpack what being really is, a word that we are familiar with: holiness. For us holiness has become about what we do and don't do. We have bought into this false holiness teaching. This teaching causes us to be fake, because we want to seem holy to others. She said" I hope you feel God releasing you, freeing you tonight." She jumped into Acts 2. Holiness is based in Christ. When Christ lived out holiness, it drew people to him. Not always religious people was it? His holiness healed them, restored them, empowered them. You can do all the right things, keep all the commnads and not be holy. After the Holy Spirit came they were all out in the street talking to people they had nothing in common with. People that they didn't look like, act like, smell like. Jeannette went into a story about traveling home after a speaking gig. She was tired and ready to have a long flight alone. Guess what, there was a young tattooed mother, with kids that plopped next to her at the gate. Jeannette talked to her, and thought, oh no, those poor kids. The mom spoke to her in a toungue that was unfamilar to her (ha ha), that she didn't know what she was gonna do, with the kids an extra two hours, they were banking on eating on the plain, and she had no way of calling anyone at her destination. (I don't remember who was gonna be wating at the other airport.) So, hesitantly Jeannette offered the mother her cell phone, and took them down the concourse to a hot dog cart. The young mother looked at her like, "what do you want lady?" She helpped her and her kids on the plain. wished her well at her seat, and said good bye thinking, "Ok, now that I've done my good deed I can relax." She looked at her ticket, I think you know where this is going, Jeannette's seat was right next to the young mom and her kids. The kids slept while she spent the flight talking while God interpreted what she was saying. Holiness is really about the Holy Spirit revealing Jesus to us. If the Church of God did nothing else in 2008 but Acts 2:42 we'd be doin' alright. Jeannette hung on the word devoted. Devoted to the Word, devoted to each other, devoted to prayer. Randy segway: This speaks to the three flames in our ChOG logo, Salvation, Holiness, Unity. For me, that's a journey not a mission statement or motto. We follow the savior around and we get to know him (salvation), then his presence changes us (holiness), and we become more about others, more selfless in the Body (unity) and to the world. Jeannette let us in on something that she has recently gone through. She candidated for a church, and didn't get it. We are not practicing what we preach, things like holiness and women in ministry. Morrice Berquist once gave an analogy about power lines. When crews are getting ready to install new power lines, they set the new lines on the ground off to the side. They never set them underneath the hot lines. why? Because the power will jump and make the new, disconnected lines go hot. All we have to do, is get ourselves inline with God, and we will be connected to the source. We will have what we need.

Session III: 1968, it's the Jetts vs the Raiders. The game was gonna go long, and the movie Heidi was supposed to air. The executive producer had a decision to make: Stay with the close game, or go to Heidi. He went to Heidi, and the nation missed one of the best game endings ever. In OT the Raiders scored two touchdowns to win it...nobody saw it. To this day Sports Illustrated has the Heidi Award, for bad TV productions. In 2 Corinthians 2:14 there is picture of a triumphal parade after battle. As God leads us, we leave His fragrance behind us. What type of fragrance do we leave behind? (Ironically, I stepped in dog poop this morning and I can still smell it on my shoe. I'm going to wash it off now.) (I'm back.) We can chose to complain, or have joy. We need to check ourselves regularly to see what fragrance we're leaving behind. We reward people who do a lot of the right things, but don't leave the fragrance of Christ behind them. We shouldn't be stomping on each other, berating each other. There's no fragrance of Christ in those things. In a triumphal parade we bring discipline, not for punishment, but for health. We don't take action with leaders or pastors unless they steal from the treasury or sleep around. Gossip, discord, deception we don't do anything about. We must stand up and do something. Those things stick. when Jeannette was growing up in Newton Falls Ohio, if she was running in the sanctuary, she knew she would get stopped by just about anyone, not just her parents. Why? Out of love, they wanted to help her know what was respectful and the way to go about worshiping God. It was restorative discipline, not punishment. We must restore Christ-like righteousness. ("now Christ lives in me") We teach the triumphal parade, but we live like CEOs. we hear the word integrity a lot. Jeannette says she has thought that integrity means, you do what you say you're going to do. It really means that the internal strength of something has no flaws so it will stand up to something. Like the integrity of the frame of the hotel ballroom we were in. (the same thought as, "you're as strong as your weakest link.) If the structural integrity of a building is compromised, the building will fall. We must be transformed from one moment to the next so we have real integrity. You can say you love your brother and if they have a real need and you don't do anything, you don't really love them. "The danger in doing the right thing is that I don't have to be a person of integrity." We are to be like clay vessels. they are fragile, but God is in us. From Genesis to Revelation, God's people face pain and trials. The triumphal parade includes perseverance. At the end, I don't take the doing. It's the being that stands before God. What we're going through are temporary. (2 Cor 4:17-18) We need to focus on the unseen. That's what will last.

It was a challenging GA. I'm glad that Jeannette came. I think we need to be smacked up side the head with things like this. If we are going to be a community, a movement and not somthing else, we need to have deep relationship with each other, in our town, accords town, our counties, states, nations and the world. It's starts with us though doesn't it? Well, I'm gonna go hang out with Jesus, like Andrew before me. I've found the messiah (John 1:41).

Hybels Confession, and other Movements

2007-11-01T08:16:00.000-04:00

I am sure you have read the recent Willow Creek confession by Hybels,

“We made a mistake. What we should have done when people crossed the line of faith and
became Christians, we should have started telling people and teaching people that they have to take responsibility to become ‘self-feeders.’ We should have gotten people, taught people, how to read their Bible between service, how to do the spiritual practices much more aggressively on their own.”

Speaking at the Leadership Summit, Hybels summarized the findings this way:

Some of the stuff that we have put millions of dollars into thinking it would really help our people grow and develop spiritually, when the data actually came back it wasn’t helping people that much. Other things that we didn’t put that much money into and didn’t put much staff against is stuff our people are crying out for.

Having spent thirty years creating and promoting a multi-million dollar organization driven by programs and measuring participation, and convincing other church leaders to do the same, you can see why Hybels called this research “the wake up call” of his adult life.

In other words, spiritual growth doesn’t happen best by becoming dependent on elaborate church programs but through the age old spiritual practices of prayer, bible reading, and relationships. And, ironically, these basic disciplines do not require multi-million dollar facilities and hundreds of staff to manage.

Diana Butler Bass says, “Notice what Hybels says is missing: intentionality, practice, and vitality.”

Bass says these are the same three points confirmed by her 2004 research on mainline churches which found: “Congregations that intentionally engage Christian practices are congregations that experience new vitality” (The Practicing Congregation, Alban Institute).

She explains, “Intentionality involves choice and taking responsibility for individual and communal spirituality; ... practice is not a program, rather it is a meaningful way of life; and … vitality cannot be measured in terms of numbers as it means spiritual health and maturity. A vital congregation is one where all people—including the pastor—are growing members of an organic community of spiritual practice.”

**********
Andy's questions . . . .

Where within your ministries do you see the worship of the program driven strategy?

Do you rely on participation as a measurement of spirituality?

Have you seen any confessions from leadership, "We made a mistake" where the new paradigm had taken over what really matters?

Is your pastor, or are you, lacking practice?

calling all Michiganders

2007-10-26T16:57:00.000-04:00

So who's going to GA in a couple weeks? You want to go to lunch, dinner, coffee? Maybe I could REALLY bring an espresso machine [Sorry Nate and Brent] and host something in my room. what are you guys up for?

look out there's evil out there

2007-10-26T11:03:00.001-04:00

So I'm thumbing through some mail at the office. Do you guys get as much junkmail at the office as I do? Man! I come across "The Gospel Trumpet." I say out loud, "Wow, it's still around? who knew? And why am I getting it?" (What, You don't talk out loud to yourself? Whatever.) So I start looking at this Gospel Trumpet. There's readership from all over the world apparently. I picked this up in the Tesimonies & Letters section where there were correspondence with people from Ohio, Texas, Kenya, Ukraine, and Nepal.

Then I came upon this article with the picture to the left as the heading. Very creative idea. Basically the article says don't watch tv or movies, or be hip or cool, because that is of the Devil. These things are rated N for none. They don't watch tv, or movies and say there is much harmony in their family because of it. There are tons of scripture references. I've got to be honest. I laughed as I first started reading. You'd think I was watching something on youtube.
Here's the deal. Much of the article, I actually agree with. TV and movies can distract us from God, true. I don't have cable for two reasons. 1. I don't have much time to watch it after ministry and a nightly cage match with my boys. So I don't want to pay for something I won't get much bang for my buck. 2. If we had it, it would be on all the time. It would distract us from the important things, like knowing my friends and family.

Here's why I speak up about this article: Tone and ChOGness. I call into question the tone, because I wonder if this brother talks to his neighbors, or people in the world around him that don't follow Jesus in this same arrogant, self righteous tone. I just wonder. I taste an opening of separatist with a fighter pilot finish. Both leaving a bitter aftertaste. Do we in the Church of God come across in this way to other Christians, and to those that are not-yet-Christians? It's one thing to abstain from things in the culture, but for me, from a distance from this brother it seems that he would not only smash a tv with a 20pounder, he would do the same thing verbally to someone. That's just what I "heard" as I read the article.

I just wonder. I reminds me a little of the Nooma - Bullhorn. I just wonder if that's the perception that the world has of us. As the church what smell are we giving off to those in the world around us? [reference to last post] Is it the aroma of Christ , or do we smell like we ate a spiritual burrito supreme, soft taco, and Baja Blast Mt Due? Just a gut check. (Bwaaaaaaaaoooop) "oh man, excuse me!"

bland?

2007-10-17T20:56:00.000-04:00

Here is an interesting find by Lloyd Moritz over at ChOGBlog. It talks about Charles Shultz's roots in the Church of God. This post brings up an interesting question. In an EPIC world {Experiential, Participatory, Image rich, and Connective}[Len Sweat], are we as ChOGers ill-equipt to relate to the world around us? How creative and artisitc is your congregation? We've got a few people. Our building isn't, it looks like every other Indiana Limestone church built in the 50s. Except we've added on since then, something that most of those vintage churches have not done.

What's your church's creative score? 1 to 10: 1 being stick figure, 10 being Di Vinci

Is there a difference between your church and your specific area of ministry? Why is that? What would that score be?

the sweet old lady

2007-10-09T12:19:00.000-04:00

hey was anyone at catalyst? If you were, could you share the wealth.

I was teaching a couple sessions at the ChOG in MI Christian Leadership Convention Saturday. I tag teamed one session with Terry Blackford. We ping-ponged off each other a bit which was fun. Thanks Terry for sharing your story and the wisdom you've gained so far in ministry.

There was something else that happend that really reminded me of this migration we're undergoing. There was this older lady that came to the session that Terry and I were doing. I thought it was kinda sweet that this old lay was coming in hear to listen to Me and Terry, guys that could easily be her grandsons. my first thought was this lady is a prayer warrior, cool. As Terry started things off and as he went on it looked like our old friend had a head ache or was really trying to concentrate. Honestly I was trying not to be distracted by her so I didn't look much, she was sitting at table that was right in front of me. at some point she just blurted about about a ministry that she wanted to start in schools. she wanted to go into high schools and start teaching classes about God and teach from the Bible. She really derailed me, and I couldn't get her back on it. With the help of others in the room she decided to talk to someone about it "after class."

This situation was a real reminder to me. This nice old lady was really passionate, but she was so out of touch that she didn't know that students, let a lone the school administration wouldn't give her the time of day, if she just walked in to school and wanted to teach like that. She couldn't see that she would be perceived by people that she was spraying people with a Bible Machine gun. [Picture me pretending to load and fire a 50cal accompanied with the proper sound affects.] It reminded me that we've still got to tell a lot of people in the church that the world has changed. It continues to change. At alarming rates for many people.

Let's help people see. Let's have some hard talks with people we know. People that are treating their friends and neighbors badly on behalf of Jesus and they don't even know it.

absence makes the heart..blaa, blaa, blaa

2007-09-11T16:09:00.000-04:00

well people, sorry for my absence! i have no excuse!

randy - i'll be coming to the youth leaders retreat this weekend & bringing my mug. the coffee has to be better than last years batch!!

you mentioned books - there are a number of books that are currently circulating in and out of my bag. here's a couple of thoughts on those books:

static -ron martoia
lots of good stuff here! martoia does a good job of challenging how we talk about God, church, salvation, and many other things within the church circles. things that don't make much sense outside of the context of life with Christ. but language that we use regularly anyhow.

the shaping of things to come - frost & hirsch
this one's been out a while but i've come back to it recently & re-working some thoughts on how it impacts what i'm doing locally. lots of good conversation grist for teams & small groups. lots of questions about what we do & if we should continue to do it that way or if it's ok to change. i'm spending time right now looking at what it means to do ministry to & with students. can we change some of the basics of week-in/week-out ministry? me thinks yes...

the forgotten ways - alan hirsch
lots of good stuff here! not a how to on something new & potentially offensive to the modern mind-set. but a reminder of what Jesus came to do in the first place. not lots done with this one just yet, but captured by the thesis.

the starfish & the spider - brafman & beckstrom
this one is worth all the time & money int he world! the sub-title is "the unstoppable power of leaderless organizations". yea, that's right! these guys aren't, by anything i can tell, Christ-followers. but what they talk about, suggest & put forth sounds a lot like Jesus & His release of the power of the Kingdom into the hands of a bunch of guys nobody else wanted is amazing. a flat leadership style that covers the range of people they talked to like craigslist founder craig newmark & tracing the origins & success of AA back to the man who started it all. very good stuff that could have major impact for the church that Jesus spoke of.

silence is deafning

2007-09-04T12:21:00.000-04:00

So is anyone out there anymore? I bet not. It's been hard to find time to blog in this transition without a lead pastor. The good news it that he's here now. [fwehh/sigh]

If any of you are going to the MI Youthworkers Retreat let's Chat. I'll be bringing my own coffee this year. I'm thinking about bringing the espresso machine too. Bring your favorite mug, and some thoughts about church, and how we can help make it more missional/incarnational.

Read any good books lately?

In the merry old land of Oz

2007-06-29T23:26:00.000-04:00

I've been emailing a guy from AUS that's connected to Forge. [Alan Hirsch.] I tried to meet with some Forge peops when I was Down Under but I couldn't make it happen. I got the email of a guy named Phil though. He's pointed me to a blog with some posts on their journey as a church. It was 4 churches that combined to make one new one. It's been an interesting story so far. Check them out here >>. I think there's a lot we can learn from them on how we can reimagine church.

Our buddy Ron is in the blogsphere

2007-06-29T23:22:00.000-04:00

Ron Martoia is blogging. Jeremy Pastor blogged it, 3 days ago. Ron's posts started in January. Alright, come clean. Who knew and didn't post a link? Who's been horeding Martoia?

Sad news

2007-06-23T22:40:00.000-04:00

Do you guys know about Shane Claiborne and The Simple Way? He is the author of The Irresistable Revolution. His house and ministry center burned down. Learn more from the Christianity Today blog. You can donate here if you're so moved. Really sad to see.

How to Emerge Without Being Emerging (from Alan Hartung)

2007-06-23T15:24:00.000-04:00

Here is a good post from Alan Hartung over at theooze.com. Alan says this concept to him "is like not eating any carbs and then saying you’re on a diet which is not anything like the Atkins diet." I've often thought the same things as he says in the last couple paragraphs. Check it out.

Have you heard of

2007-06-18T11:31:00.000-04:00

Have you heard of Biblical Seminary? I just went to their page by way of Scot McKight's post Teaching Freedom in Seminary. (a good post. read if you don't subscribe to jesuscreed.org) I explored a little bit. There is a heading on their home page called The Missional Church, and a couple links under that heading that you should check out. It's encouraging stuff to see a seminary tackle issues and shift like that. There is hope my friends.

spaces

2007-05-30T10:39:00.000-04:00

I'm just curious. What kind of space do you need for different tasks, or types of things that you do, on a weekly or daily basis? I'm talking about stuff that you do mostly by yourself. When I moved here I tried to adapt to the culture here. Makes sense right? Well there were some routines that I had established in Greenville, that I let go when I came here, because I thought I was supposed to spend my personal ministry time in the office. What that ended up doing was hurting my leadership and my ministry. Now, I've learned a lot about both since being here. I just wish that this time I wouldn't have listen to the voices in my head. So I've redone where I spend my time. For "deep" thinking tasks, or creative things, brainstorming, prioritizing, I go to Penera Bread, or a deli or coffee shop. [A new coffee shop came to town recently and I'm excited about it. Except, I'm a booth guy and they have tables.] Administrative things I do in my office: organizing, updating the website, meetings with other staff, writing letters to parents, etc. I've been beating myself up because I was trying to do some of those creative things at this desk and I end up being interrupted, distracted or starring out the window wishing I was somewhere else. Somewhere I could think.

So where do you work?

Emergent Vs. Traditional?

2007-05-24T11:13:00.000-04:00

Just found this on Doug Pagitt's blog. I listened to the interview with him and read the blog post about the interview... very interesting. Emergent is an even hotter topic than I thought.

the chart

2007-04-25T16:39:00.000-04:00

Check out this helpful chart. It will probably clear some things up for you. >:|
It in fact didn't help my blood pressure any. I'm glad I'm not expected at the doctor today.

Edit: Wow, a lot of what the video link talks about that Andy posted has to do with this chart and the church.

The difference between the missional and emerging church

2007-04-20T09:10:00.000-04:00

Check out this video, of Roxburgh interviewing Bolger on the missional church, the emerging church, and about the differences between the two.

Chiropractor anyone?

2007-04-17T16:28:00.000-04:00

Chris Spitters my boss and the guy that works with middle schoolers [thank you God!], is doing a 5 week series on how church needs to be more missional. It will give you a glimpse of what's going on with us. Find the link to the sermons/podcast on our homepage >>

Unleash Conference Streaming Videos

2007-04-16T19:20:00.000-04:00

Hey everyone,

Newspring Church recently had their first-ever church leadership conference called "Unleash" and they now have the videos of the main sessions online for free.

Perry Noble is their LP, and he has a blog that he updates frequently as well. They're really gettin' it done. :)

c & C

2007-04-11T10:16:00.000-04:00

Ryan Bolger has a good post about the nature of the church and our veiw and practice of "c" church and "C" church. Check it out.

...like a hole in the head

2007-03-21T08:35:00.000-04:00

i recently stumbled onto another web source. and if you're like me i need something else to listen to/download/read/digest like i need a hole in the head. but, this one has provided some interesting content.

The Veritas Forum is a traveling dialogue @ universities accross the country, and a couple outside the US. there's all kind of history & what happens at a forum. but check the top right corner for 'veritas media'. free downloads, audio & video, of recent forums & where they took place. their archive is fairly extensive as well.

i know, something else to listen can become a brain sucker. but the forum brings in the likes of donald miller, erwin mcManus, n.t.wright & makoto fujimura among others.

if you're already aware of this resource please forgive my tardiness in tapping into its offering. if this is new to you check it out - lots of good stuff.

either way, soak it up my friends...

In the merry old land of oz

2007-03-11T00:47:00.000-05:00

I've been quiet in the blogsphere for a while now. It's mostly because of where I am right now... Australia visiting my Dad and his side of the family. You know how it goes when you go away, you have to work twice as hard before and after you're gone.

For me the work and holiday sandwich has been worth it. Here are a few photos. I'll post some with me real camera later, you'll have to do with the digital point and shoot for now. here's a map of our travels from Sydney to my Nana's house.

You'll hear from me more when we get back in our home hemisphere. Cheers Mates!

Emersion Books

2007-03-09T10:29:00.000-05:00

http://www.emersionbooks.com/
Emersion is a partnership between Baker Publishing Group and Emergent Village. If anyone gets a hold of An Emergent Manifest of Hope, by Pagitt and Jones, let me know!

Blogs I'm Watching

2007-03-08T16:05:00.000-05:00

Hey everyone,

here's a list of blogs that I'm currently watching of pastors/leaders that are really gettin'-it-done... Many of you probably already follow some of these guys, but maybe some of them are new. A TON can be learned from following these guys.

Anyway, click here for the list.

Hope it's a blessing,

JP

Isn't she beautiful? - "The Book"

2007-02-02T13:27:00.000-05:00

here is a link >> to the recomended reading list from the Isn't She Beautiful Conference @ Mars Hill. Start reading!!! [The pdf is on the left hand side of the page about halfway down..ish.]

Ministry Update 2.0

2007-02-01T19:39:00.000-05:00

ya, so we're making some major first steps to where I think we should get. We're I mean, my ministry here as High School Pastor. 4 or 5 years ago I started on this crazy journey in persute of what church was going to look like in the future. I'm starting to see some steps in that direction. So think of all the tid-bits that you've been storing away, as you read blogs and books, go to conferances and enter into discussions in the frame of mind. Tuesday while I have some serious gastro-intestinal distrubances due to some virus, I'm sitting at my HS assistant's sofa with my boss Chris, listening to him spew out off his mouth most of those tid-bits that I've picked up over that las few years.

The short of it: We're changing what we do and how we live as ministry. We decided to detach small groups from our Sunday night gathering. Freeing them to be many things. We're doing one "come" event a month. a distant cousin to what we do now. Involving many more people than me, my assistant, and jembe player. One service/mission/partner with the community event a month, most likely not on sunday. Freeing a sunday night for students and leaders. And two leader gatherings, which will Empower students and adults to "go." We're also adding in a mentoring wing to the ministry. That is very near my heart. I'm a small time asspireing spiritual director. I'm not telling you the names or many more details because we're doing a "Move That Bus" moment in a couple weeks. I don't think it's "there." I think it's the next right step toward wherever "there" really is.

Oh, BTW I didn't listen to any of your book recomendations for staff. We're reading The Shaping of Things to Come by Hirsch/Frost. I think Martoia recomended it at GA. As a student ministry staff we're currently reading Contemplative Youth Ministry by Mark Yaconelli. Talk about "shot to the heart". Great read!!!

let's hear it, how are things are shaping up for you guys? what are the next right steps for your ministry? What are some challenges or land mines? what can we do to help?

Isn't she beautiful?

2007-01-31T13:22:00.000-05:00

Last week I went to a conference at Mars Hill Bible Church in Grandville, MI. [That's where Rob Bell is if you didn't make the connection]. Great conference!!! It sounded like they were going to make an annual thing out of it. I'll be there next year!

It was like drinking from a fire hose! But, most of if stayed in my mouth. I don't know how God fit it all in there but it happened. We talked about the Eucharist, Rhythms of life, had Q & As Salvation, and some break out sessions.

I went to the student ministry break out. It felt pretty programmatic still, I was pretty disappointed actually. One thing that I did gather though was that they write their own small group curriculum and it has many different option for teaching in it. They described it like a choose your own adventure. They don't do much with the schools in the area, surprises me. They have it divided by 5th & 6th Grades, 7th & 8th and 9th-12th. They do their large group gatherings for HS once a month, the rest is small group time. The try to plug students into service opportunities that the rest of the church is doing, their trying not to reinvent the wheel.

The second break out I went to was being a good neighbor, about house churches. Nothing really revolutionary there. The have Grand Rapids split into 11 different neighborhoods and there are about 10 house churches per neighborhood. They help each neighborhood, I don't like the phrase "service project" anymore. It sounds too limited and also sounds like the ones serving are benefactors that are blessed to now I will help you peons who are desperate. Sorry about that tangent.

The closing was awesome they just had some worship. They "opened the altars" for communion, served and on you own, anointing oil, prayer, and special pray for marriage or other issues like porn or things that could involve marriage. They had two people holding a prayer shawl like in a Jewish wedding for people to come under. Rob opened the service with his message about the prayer shawls. If you were at IYC 2006 you heard it. It's a reoccurring message for him. It ties in Numbers, Malachi, and Mark [the woman that was healed by touching Jesus' prayer shawl.]

I took 28 pages of notes in my journal. I will probably be making copies or something for some of them for you guys to have it you want. Or maybe I'll just hoard them. :) I've been interrupted a few times now and I have no more to say now.

Staff Hire?

2007-01-24T11:02:00.000-05:00

So, as American culture keeps changing and evolving, the praxis of the church must as well. I think we're all on the same page as far as that is concerned. Traditionally in a church the first staff hire would be a youth pastor, but is that the most effective 1st hire anymore?... this leads me to my question:

If you were building a church from the ground up, what would your first staff hire be and why? Has this changed at all?

Post some comments, and let's get our talk on.

home & life

2007-01-19T10:39:00.000-05:00

i just had this link sent to me about house churches. it's probably not any new info for this conversation; as we've probably seen this coming for some time now. but it begs the question surrounding community. one of the opening lines in the article is the underlying issue that we don't know how to do community very well.
i just came from an over-night discussion/planning session with my sr. pastor and one of the things that i'm bringing away from that time is this: how do i re-imagine the life of Jesus in me?

this plays into community because if i do the hard work of thinking and living through this question it has the possibility of becoming a point for community. time spent reimagining what my faith looks like, what church looks like, how i connect to God then; and ONLY then - after i've done the 'quiet center' homework - do i have something of power and influence to teach/lead.

yea, but that sounds like a lot of work. i'm gonna' go take a nap.

Ahhh, that was easy

2007-01-17T10:06:00.000-05:00

OK so we're switched over now.

Rememeber to resubscribe to the new feed!

Heads Up!!!

2007-01-15T17:29:00.000-05:00

This Wednesday January 17th I am going to migrate ChOG Migration, to that actual domain name at blogspot. This curent domain will no longer be good after that. I will have a link there reminiding people of this to catch traffic. Remember to resubscirbe. Peace, I'm out.

Church Growth

2007-01-03T15:32:00.000-05:00

An interesing post over at MMI about church growth... it's basically a study of 900 churches, and the ones that are growing have 4 things in common:

1. The church is multiracial
2. Men make up at least 60% of the participants
3. Leaders describe worship as "slightly to not at all" reverent
4. Drums/percussion is used every time.

Just thought it was interesting and might be good to bat around some thoughts/conversation about the study. I thought it might be a bit of a window into current culture and relevance issues. Anyway, the link is above. Enjoy and post some thoughts if you'd like.

2006 & george barna

2006-12-28T13:05:00.000-05:00

i was just checking out something through catalyst space [their web-based leaders e-zine & pod cast]. they had a summary & a link to george barna's site.

barna was listing the top religious findings of .06 - one prettying interesting thing listed is how church go-ers view their relationship with God and then how pastors think the people in their church view their relationship with God. there is a HUGE disconnect between the two.

i guess the most troubling thing related to this issue is how we as leaders can be so uninformed about the people that we're trying to lead. this is probably a bit of a hard pill to swallow. but when/if we get past our defensive thoughts, how does this impact what we're doing as we lead church?

when we really get down to it are we answering questions that no one is asking? are we providing a program that not many are interested in being a part of? is it then any wonder that so much of the american church is struggling? probably not...

Heads up to all!!!

2006-12-25T11:51:00.000-05:00

I am pulling the domain switch-a-roo. Until recently you had to stick with the domain name you origanally chose. In this blog's case it is way too long and tedious, not memorible. Some of you would argue that with ChOG Migration too. ["Cause he's a bad ---Shut yo mouf"] Anyway, January 17th I am swaping this domain for chogmigration.blogspot.com. Now with the new blogger you can simply retype the domain you want in your settings. You don't have to acctually, and laboriously move all the posts to a new blog. Or worse discard them and leave them behind at the old domain. So Jan. 17th I will swap. Make sure to resubscribe to the new address.

Merry Christmas. "God bless us all, every one!"

Heads up Contributors!

2006-12-21T11:23:00.000-05:00

I've upgraded the blog to Blogger beta. So before you can post again I think you have to upgrade your account. It seems worth it to me. There's more easy layout change, and the dashboard is differant, etc. Time to keep up with the latest and greatest!

a book

2006-12-19T16:07:00.000-05:00

So in staff meeting today we set asside some time as pastoral staff to process things from GA. They asked Chris and I to come up with a book to read. So I'm curious, if you were in my shoes what book would you have your staff read?

Ron Martoia Velocity Conversation at LPCOG

2006-12-16T15:02:00.000-05:00

Hey Guys,

We've got Ron coming on February 22nd to Lincoln Park Church of God. It's a one day event. This will be the third one I've attended. It's a whole day of picking Ron's brain and talking more indepth about Ethos, Leadership, Theology etc...plus you get to pick each other's brains also...max of 20-30 attend so it's very personal...

The cost is 99 bucks...well worth the time and info...register at velocityculture.com

rumor has it that he may give us a copy of his chapter on trapize artistry not yet published...no promises yet...

Thanks
Steve

Ron Martoia Interview

2006-12-15T16:28:00.000-05:00

Hey everyone,

I just found this interview from New Wineskins with Ron. Some of it's review from GA, but there's some new stuff in it as well. Enjoy.

Since I was up....

2006-12-07T01:44:00.000-05:00

Quite a post by Dan Kimball. Check it out here. This is a long post but really good. I've had similar conversations in the past. Not one has been to an emerging church either. hmmm.

With friends like that Dan...

GA Aftermath: Here's what's happening in my neck of the woods.

2006-12-07T00:47:00.000-05:00

So what is going on in your neck of the woods?

It's 12:49am. I came home after lunch today to catch a nap because I'm coming down with a cold and I wanted to jup ahead of it. I tried to go to bed, I've laid there for over an hour now. I just can't sleep. I'm not thinking of sugar plumb ferries, dispite the time of year.

I came to me curent church knowing it was very modern. I had a sense that I could help somehow. But I've sat fairly quitely in the last year, scoping things out and waiting for the timing to be right.

Since GA the halls have been buzzing around here. There is an urgancy, and a common language, and shared expeirance now. [Thanks for coming to talk to us Ron.]

Something great happend last sunday night. That's when the high school meets. 8 commited followers of Jesus that usually come sunday night didn't. They went to someone's house and had small group. So commited students left the church to experiance "assembley" and fellowship. This has happend, and now all us pastors here can put our finger on it; "This is the stuff Ron was talking about." I've been waiting for this to happen. I just didn't expect this to happen episode 4 of season 2. I thought I would have to wait til season 3 or 4 to reshape the way my ministry is. Now, it's upon us.

So tonight after Middle School D-Groups, a few of those guys and Chris and I were at Dunkin Donuts trying to put our finger on it. What does an effective HS ministry in St Joe MI look like?

I think we've got a start. I think we have some ideas. The pump is primed. The bearings are greased. The road is icy. [ Those guys are praying for a snow day tomarrow so we can shovel the sidewalks and driveways of the houses around the church.] {Wait, should the road be icy? Oh, nevermind, it's 1am.}

Just thought I would share.

Look out

2006-12-01T23:31:00.000-05:00

I don't know about you guys, but I recieved my CDs from GA, they're on my iPod and I will be looking back over my notes and trying to sum up some of it. I've been held up on Session 3 because I had my notes from that session on a differant peice of paper...and well I don't have them anymore.

another opportunity for conversation

2006-12-01T12:46:00.000-05:00

I've been contacted by dearchurch.com. It's a site that's a companion to the book Dear Church, by Sarah Cunningham. Anyway, it has to do with disillusionment, hurt, or frustration with the Church. She is doing a Media Tour, one of the arms of which is blogs and websites. Someone from the website emailed me to see if we wanted to be involved with a blogsphere interview. What happens is we generate some questions and Sarah will reply to them and I can post them here. I guess leave your questions here as comments or you can email me.

I think it's a good opportunity to continue and broaden our conversation.

BTW: has anyone read the book yet? [sheepishly asked, because I haven't yet.]

Questions could be like:
what do you see as them main issues the church has to face/overcome to minister to postmodern generations?

Why Jesus Couldn't Be A Pastor

2006-11-21T11:51:00.000-05:00

Perry Noble just wrote a great blog post on Seven Reasons Why Jesus Could Not Have Been A Pastor In Many Churches... It resonates well with a postmodern, apostolic view of the pastoral role. Enjoy!

the golden years & keifer sutherland

2006-11-14T16:04:00.001-05:00

i’m off today – so i was watching some tv. i stumbled on a show on VH1 [can’t remember the name] with kiefer sutherland as a road manager for a new band called rocco laDuca & the burden. he’s traveling with them to get their name out there in anticipation of their album release [it’s out now]. their music is pretty good. lots of blues-y funk. but my thought isn’t about the music, it’s more about kiefer sutherland.

this guy doesn’t seem content to ride the fame of his show and live the life of a wealthy celebrity. though i’m sure he does plenty of that. he’s in the streets of London passing out free tickets to a concert that no one, at first, seems to want to go to; freezing his but off in the process.

so then i started thinking about the idea of retirement. this conversation actually began in atlanta, ga. when i was at catalyst in oct. we were spending some time with family of the guy i was with and we ended up talking about another guy that had just retired and was feeling unfulfilled just lying on a beach in the caribbean [i’d like to try that for just a little bit].

point, point...ah yes

i think we’d all cop to an in-born desire to make a difference in the world – no matter our age. but there is an undercurrent that there comes a day when your productive days are behind you and you just need to drift into the sunset. although retirement/investment commercials are more recently about doing something different with your life and starting a new chapter.

i think there could be some real interesting thinking/teaching/preaching on the idea that Christ-followers, in their later years have the opportunity to do some big things for Christ and His church.

maybe there’s already some stuff out there that i’m not aware of, but i just think this whole topic of retirement & the kingdom of God is an interesting one. retirement & those conversations fly in the face of what Jesus told His people to be about.

by the way, the guy on the caribbean beach – not happy with his retirement – decided to partner with a friend, bought a closed-down k-mart in the atlanta area and renovated it into a church. they opened in oct. high on the arts & use of the local body to create a place to meet God. atlanta is nice this time of year isn't it??

Reactive Christianity

2006-11-14T14:33:00.000-05:00

In Mark Batterson's latest book, he posed a question that resonated with me, and got me to thinking:

"Is anybody else tired of reactive Christianity that is more known for what it's against than what it's for?" (In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day)

I think in many churches (mine included) there's a tendency towards an ethos of reaction rather than proaction. As Ron said at GA, I think a lot of this comes from an ecclesiology built on doxology. When there's an "Alamo" mentality in the church, it becomes very defensive and reactive... fighting to preserve what it thinks is ecclesiological paradise. Unfortunately, this is what the unchurched sees as judgmentalism and vindictiveness towards those who see things differently.

In my observation, missional mindsets are what drive innovation and creativity in the church... Mission-driven churches can't stay in the Alamo, because they've realized the Alamo isn't where the mission is fulfilled. The churches that are thinking outside of the box and doing innovative/creative ministry are the churches that are wholeheartedly devoted to and driven by mission. They know exactly what they're about and they're willing to experiment and try new and innovative things to get it done.... If their mission is to "make disciples", they then ask the question, "how can we do that best?". And through a balance of Biblical and cultural exegesis they begin to try new things and go places that may have never been seen before by the church.

I think one of the major ethos transitions when we talk about transitioning from doxology to missiology is reactive ethos to a proactive ethos. Instead of pushing against something, the church begins to push towards something. Mission motivates action, and puts reactions into the background.

A major part of leadership is about helping the church realize that not only is the Alamo undefendable, in reality, there never was an Alamo to begin with.

MI.GA.2006.3

2006-11-10T09:42:00.000-05:00

If I missed something you contributors out there please edit. Just notate your edit, so we can see who's pitching in.

Session 2 with Ron Martoia - Q & A

Q:What did you mean by Excile, Exodus, and Preistly?

A: He reviewed that we preached the gospel mostly through the preistly story not the whole gospel story that's told in the old testiment. [Frankly I didn't write many notes here because it was review to me.] He spoke for quite a while on that, then I think someone did a follow up questions that gave him clarity on what the first guy asked.

Then he talked about encoding and decoding. We may be speaking the same words, but not really talking about the same things, or coming away with the same meaning. It's like having a conversation with someone from the UK and you don't have any idea what they just said. That can play a significant part in all this. [I can't wait to listen to the CDs, I know I missed a lot here.]

Q:If we find ourselves in the Know >>> Do model of spiritual formation how do we transition to the Knowing >>> Seeing >>> Sensing >>> Doing way of formation? [I asked that brilliant question.]

A: He told a story about being at the check out lane of a store. There was this mom with two out of control kids. {You've been there! Maybe they're your kids :) } All Ron could think of was "Get control of your kids lady!" "I wanted to get her a brochure on a parenting seminar." When she was leaving she turned to Ron and said "Thanks for being so patient with me and my kids. My husband and their dad left us last night." So Ron's perception of her and the kids immediately cahnged. He wanted to give her a brochure at first {Know >>> Do}, But then he Knew something different >>> He Saw why they were acting that way >>> he Sensed that they needed help/love >>> He wanted to Do something for them.

Bring about things into the walk/formation about how people see people. How Jesus see's people.

"Spirituality is seeing."

Q: Tell us about the process of shifting DNA.

A: 1. Start by honing in on missional victories.
2. Read the Bible again for the first time. Ask questions about what was really being said.
Work on the encoding >>> decoding thing. [Like a convo with someone from the UK.]
Zachious: What did Jesus say? What was it like in his culture to tlak to a tax collector?
What would it have been like to eat with that guy? At his house????

Observation said in the mic: Extreme Makeover saves people from problems, only to make them into materialistic consumers, with bigger bills and up keep costs.

What are the top 5 needs of your county? What indiginous things that work? [what a good missionary does.]

Do you have to be a commited volunteer or pillar in your church to help the community? Does everyone that volunteers for Extreme Makeover know Jesus?

Randy 's Personal note spured by that statement: Is our high school trip to Mexico just for committed kids? It has been in the past, but I'm not sure anymore.

From the guys at Odyssey

2006-11-09T10:15:00.000-05:00

THIS post has to do with what we've been talking about. How so you ask? Read away my freind. Let me just say S A R, may have something to do with it.

Chris and Alan have a different perspective then most of us around "here." I have grown to appreciate that angle on life, faith and the church. [Those wacky Presbyterians. :) ]

MI.GA.2006

2006-11-05T14:06:00.000-05:00

My computer fragged and I lost this brilliant post that I've been writting for 30 min. It's sunday afternoon and I've got to be back to the office soon so I'm not going to replicate the former post.

We had a great General Assembly of the Church of God in Michigan. Ron Martoia was really challenging to all of us. Our conversation is seeing some fruit guys! Three years ago when Nate and I did a conferance about church and culture we got blank looks and no conversation. That was not the atmosphere in the room at GA. I will be posting my notes here in a series so we can unpack them more. If I've left soemthing out you other contributors make sure to edit the post. You write down something brilliant only to miss another brilliant thought. I will be getting the CDs of the sessions and interjecting some things that I missed.

I'm really glad I'm in Michigan right now guys! I think this will give us some common language to talk about change now. A couple pastors on staff with me mentioned that we should go on a retreat to talk about it. NICE! So look forward to that.

an artistic cultural intpretation

2006-11-01T15:01:00.000-05:00

not that i am any great writter, but i just finished a piece for our church newsletter on the clash of culture and arts and their use in the church. but it got me wondering about the use of the arts in church and how we need to be willing to tap into places of people's existance that we ARE missing...

Why do the arts matter? Is it important that we participate in culture? Is there a connection to God when art happens?

Here’s a thought on the arts from C.S.Lewis & why the arts matter, “To see with other eyes, imagine with other imaginations, to feel with other hearts as well as our own.”

In other words, when someone creates something in the arts it allows us to enter a place in our hearts and minds and souls that we may have not been able to go on our own.

But immediately, when we begin to talk about culture and the arts our minds tend to go to negative places. We are tempted to think of all the things that have gone wrong with the arts & the way art has been mis-used. And to be fair, art has been mis-used & there’s been plenty that has gone wrong. But our response, at times, has been to withdrawal and push back from the table. So the conversation & development of the arts has gone on, for the most part, without many Christian voices.

mistakes to the cultural interaction? - do tell...

1 – we discourage our children from pursuing careers in creative spaces

The worry from the parent’s seat is that our kids will become the “starving artist.” True or False? The truth is that 1/3 of the nation’s economy comes from the arts field. The arts have become every bit as stable as medicine, law…name the field and there’s money to be made. It is becoming very important that we encourage students with artistic abilities to pursue the development of those gifts. Did you know that Anderson University has a very accomplished Art Dept. with a fantastic glass blowing studio? It’s true! If the church, God’s church, is going to have an impact on the culture that surrounds us Christ-followers need to get back to the table of cultural definement. And that means that Christ-followers need to pursue the gifts of creativity and arts that God has placed in their lives. And we parents need to encourage that!

2 – we only champion prescriptive art

Another way of saying this is that we like art that shows the world the way we wish it was. We like to see a world that doesn’t have hunger and war & clean water issues. So when a movie is made about the civil war in Rowanda we turn the channel. When Christian organizations promote the ability to bring clean water to places that have none through well-made documentary-style film making we shut down inside. Something inside of us grows cold. That needs to change.

The Biblical character Nehemiah looks at the world that he lives in and prays a prayer that shows the heart of one moved by God. You can check the specific prayer in ch.1, but here’s the essence…Nehemiah sees the world as it is, and then he sees the world as it could/should be. And the tension between the two weighs so much on his shoulders that his heart is broken by what’s going on. And he cries out to God and says “I want to change what’s happening here! You God, and You alone can help me do that!”

He didn’t say, “Well, this stinks. I suppose I’ll just stay in my little hut and ignore what’s happening.” Or he didn’t say, “Let me write a little check to pay for some new stuff and I’ll see ya later.” He took an active roll in changing the culture around him.

Here’s the short of the cultural discussion for this month – when we allow ourselves to”see with other eyes, imagine with other imaginations, to feel with other hearts” we open the world up beyond our front door and see new things. Things that make God happy, that we may have never seen before. Things that make God sad & angry; & again – things that we may never have seen.

So the challenge here in this first installment of the cultural discussion is this:

Are we willing to encourage those with artistic gifts to pursue the development of those gifts; without saying discouraging things under our breath?

AND are we willing to take a more open-minded look at the culture without turning away from the things that make us uncomfortable? I’m not referring to taking in the things that are mis-uses of art. But are we taking in art at all?

God is speaking through the arts all the time, are we listening?

– much of the info. here comes from time spent with Erik Lokkesmoe who hosts a web resource called brewing culture

– another great web resource for the arts and what Christ-followers are doing about it is art within

Some "Ps" from Dan Kimball

2006-10-31T23:33:00.000-05:00

It's a shame, I started to read this post a couple weeks ago in google reader and I din't get all the way through it at the time.

I really appreicate Dan's heart and the questions he asks. BTW he "still [hasn't] found what [he's] looking for" in church. I dig that about him.

Anyway, another great post by Dan on how we do what we do as the church. Great thoughts Dan!

Pastoral or Missional?

2006-10-31T09:34:00.000-05:00

Here's a link sent to me by a friend and former senior pastor of mine. [Thanks Dave!] It's a good article that will help us think more about the structure and the pattern that we're in as pastors and church leaders and where I think we need to go. Reading this post brings these questions to me:

So I am a pastor. God has made me that way. How do I do a missional church/ministry?

What structures are in place that hinder me from being missional?

How do I get the leaders around me to see it this way too? Not only see it, but live it?

"The quiz is worth 30pts. Remember weekly quizes are one third of your grade" [Sorry had a college flashback.]

Yet Another Episode in a Continuing Saga

2006-10-18T09:48:00.000-04:00

I have been thinking more about the filter thing that came up in the conference last Saturday. Maybe it would be more helpful for us invite people, in my case students, to bring the music and movies, and websites they visit into our community of faith. Here's where I came from: I was the kid that listened only to Christian music, and "oldies" from the 50s and 60s. As if when they sang about having sex in a field its was more innocent than now. "I think we're alone now..." Wouldn't it be more helpful to their journey to come along side them and help them see what we as leader cringe at? I'm thinking of a movie that I went to see with some students, Walking Tall. It's based on a true story. Has action and comedy in it. One of the early scenes is our antagonist Chris Vaughn (played by The Rock) has returned home and is at a high school friend's casino with some other buddies from yesteryear. So to welcome him home some of the guys pitch in and get him a private room to watch a stripper. For a stripper scene it's not bad at all. [Can I say that?] Most of the time that type of scene in a movie has topless women in thong's shakin' their thang in front of a camera, while the main character like an undercover cop talks to an informant at the bar. This scene is stopped short when our antagonist realizes that the stripper is in fact his high school sweetheart, and she runs out of the booth. The meat is this: In the theatre I covered my eyes when I say the stripper, and said out loud "uh, ohhh." So when we went out for milkshakes after, it opened up a great conversation about lust. It helped those boys realize something that day. They knew of a better place to draw the line than before. So I think that the more we enter in to this with people the better. What would it look like if we had people bring music or movies and we played them and talked about how it was good or bad for your soul? What if we spent time in our services or small groups to do things like that? Would we have more of an impact than saying, "don't watch movies or listen to the radio, or this band or than band"? I think we would be doing the Church, and in turn the world a favor by helping people through things like that.

in the know

2006-10-15T14:46:00.000-04:00

For those of you at the Leadership Convention, or anyone else for that matter, that wants to know what's going on with culture you should check out Relevant Magazine. They're write everything about God, Life, or Progressive Culture. I generally can't wait for the next episode to come in the mail. They also have Relevant TV witch is music videos 24/7. They also publish books.
They get flak sometimes for being good journalist. [what?] Some people write in and tell them with distain that they can't belive they support soandso's music becuase what they believe, or do or live. Relevant replies "We're just telling you what they said. So you know, so you can form your own opinion about them. It's called journalism." Someone brought up how it's our job as leaders and parents to help students and our children learn how to filter things. Becuse school is Rated R now, so it seems silly to not let them see a PG-13 movie we don't think is good. Relevant also brings to light artists who believe in God and follow Him but may not be know for the "Chrisitan" music.

I've said enough, check out www.relevantmagazine.com

Another Episode in a Continuing Saga

2006-10-14T21:55:00.000-04:00

Nathan and I just did a couple conferences at the Christian Leadership Convention in Lansing. If your not familiar its our States Christian Ed conference. Our State Christian Ed Taskforce gave it a shot in the arm a couple years ago and broadened it to church leadership not just teachers. So when people hear Christian Education they probably think of Sunday School teachers. Anyway.

This time there weren't that many blank stares from our audience. Two years ago when I first did a conference on pomo/culture/emergent people didn't know what the crap I was talking about. "What? The culture is changing? The church should too? Burn him! Burn the heretic!" Today there was good conversation about the church and culture. Great questions like, "what have you done to implement change in your church or ministry?"

It was really hopeful and encouraging to experience that today. It gave me more hope that the church can migrate to the "U.P" I can't wait 'til GA!

Scared of the bridge?!?

2006-10-11T00:08:00.000-04:00

When I was in college I went on a road trip with some friends of mine. If you have never been on a real road trip before you should try it sometime, you learn a lot about the people you are with in a small amount of time. During this particular road trip there was a young lady named Jenny with us who seemed to me to have several irrational fears. The one fear that I can remember being most disgruntled with was her fear of bridges. What is there to be afraid of? Being afraid to cross over bridges seemed like a silly thing to be afraid of to me then, and I must admit seems silly now. For my friend though it was a very real fear. Jenny hated when we would cross over a bridge. She would close her eyes and ask us to tell her when we were all the way over it. I never could understand it. What I could do though was help her be okay with it. We all encouraged Jenny that she was going to be okay, and that the bridge wasn't going to collapse, but rather was there to get us where we were going. I know she understood that, but it didn't change the fact that she was afraid.

I've thought of that weekend road trip many times. We all had a great time together! We were on a journey, together! We made it through together! We even managed to take someone with us who was often afraid to cross over the bridges we would have to cross to go where we were going.

I think in "The Church" there are those who are afraid of bridges. It might seem irrational to us, but the fear is none the less real. It's up to those of us who are not afraid to help those that are if we are going to get to the end of the journey together.

Hot cider, fresh donuts and pumkin patches

2006-10-10T10:50:00.000-04:00

What does fall mean for you? The fall expeirance is great! I just had a camp fire in my yard. This isn't any differant than the spring or summer except if felt cozey. I actually could use the heat. It wasn't simply about being a pyro. The jacket I wore to the office this morning smells like a camp fire...[huge sniff], ahhh ya!

It's funny because autum or atumnal isn't neccisarliy something that we "should" look forward to. [I remember that I learned that word from vocab while studying The Scarlett Letter in high school.] But for me it means something differant. I know that winter is coming, when it's fall. {Your thinking: Man, this guy's brilliant, can't get anything past him.} In Michigan we have four sesaons. So I know that this is just part of the rythmn. Winter is a time of dromancy. Even in climates that it doesn't get cold like it does here, plants and other things have a time of dormacey. That's just how God made the world. Everything needs to slow down and regroup, or hunker down out of the cold. I get excited about the fall becuase it's differant than the other seasons. [I like all the seasons that's why I still live here.] So eventhough fall signals the beginging of the end for somethings, it means it's almost time from something new. The death or end of something signals a new beginging for something else.

So as I think about fall I think about how the culture has changed. I think about for many in the church if feels like winter in culture. Cold, bitter, damaging are just a few adjectives. For me it's time to snowboard. It's time to take an oppertunity to do something that you couldn't do in another season. Ya know what? After winter, Spring will spring. But for right now carve a pumpkin and sip that cider. See after the hayride.

Sound Off

2006-10-02T22:58:00.000-04:00

I'm watching Studio 60: On the Sunset Strip. It's a new show by Aaron Sorken, creator and a writter of The West Wing. If you've seen it I want to know what you think. I have a feeling it's really ganna push some people's buttons. How about you?

An Interview

2006-09-19T22:02:00.000-04:00

[I don't remember the last time I had two real posts in the same day!]

Lloyd posted a link for an interview by Jim Lyon with Dan Allender of Mars Hill Graduate School in Seattle. The best part is that it was aired on CBH Radio. I'm excited about what this exposure can mean for our discussion.

A Reminder

2006-09-19T16:09:00.000-04:00

I was at the ChOG in MI Youthworker's Retreat. I was reminded of why I got into this conversation: A calling by God to help the Church of God transition into the future. So the language given to me through books and discussions was words like postmodern, modern, emergent, expeirantial, relational, EPIC, etc. I discovered also that the church in Western Culture for the most part still opperates in the modern worldview. So what's the problem? here's a picture I made incase you're a visual learner.

This is why I want to continue this conversation. If we as the church continue to do minsitry in the modern way we won' t be "in the [same] wolrd" as the people that we are wanting to share Jesus with. We won't be speaking the same language.

Now I've picked up on some vibes lately that tell me the church is getting more comfortable in talking about this issue. Not completely yet. It's kind of like letting a salesman give their pitch first before you slam the door in their face. 3 years ago I feel like I got a lot of doors slammed in my face. No willingness to talk. That is changing.

I leave you with a Jerry Maguire quote "You think we're fightin', I think we're finally talkin'!"

on emergent preaching

2006-09-01T19:22:00.000-04:00

here is a post from Odessy Blog on Ancient-Future preaching. That's how I'd describe it anyway.

Creeds, hmm

2006-08-23T08:42:00.000-04:00

I was raised in the Church of God in churches that our doctrine was taught and preached. Taught meaning sung out of our hymnal, arguably the only thing close to written doctrine that we have. I think there some good attempts, but not labeled as such because of our heritage. doctine and creed are really spelled with four letters.

I think we were wrong. Did we really think that we could go on and do ministry and be fruitful without anything to rally the troops/gather the flock/RA RA the team? "The Bible's our Doctrine" ya, ok, good one. Isn't it and hasn't it been for billions of Christian's over the centuries? What is unity than? So some guys got together a long time ago to agree on some things about our faith. Isn't that what we're supposed be about? Being the Body. One body with many parts [Romans 12]. I guess that's just been our way of seeing it. Creed evil, Bible good. But I think we missed something. God used us humans to write the Bible, and to build his Body. So could it be that a creed is simply agreed upon Christian faith cliff notes? If that's so, what's so E-vil about it? People coming together to agree in prayer about what we believe and live out. That resonates with my ChOG experience, how about you? I know in the time we launched our flegling movement there was a lot of people doing church becuase it got them status of some sort. I know that the more human's interfere with God's will the farther we can go off track. But, wouldn't agreement in the Spirit be something to be valued?

That was the long way to this...

Scot McKnight, uber prolific blogger Extraordinaire, has a series on this. Here's the first post. I'll probably update this post with other articles by him. Emerging and Orthodoxy

other posts by McKnight on this: Emerging and Orthodoxy 2, Emerging and Orthodoxy 3, Emerging and Orthodoxy 4

the Irishman is always quotable

2006-08-15T14:51:00.000-04:00

“People expect you, as a believer, to have all the answers, when really all you have is a whole new set of questions.” - Bono

Church and Pomo

2006-08-12T22:22:00.000-04:00

here's a new link, thanks to Scot McKnight. Didnt' read the whole blog yet but I like what I read. enjoy.

Brian McLaren Interview

2006-08-11T10:56:00.000-04:00

My friend Nick Fiedler and Josh Brown interview Brian McLaren, and talk about The Secret Message of Jesus, and Jesus' government policy. LINK

Comming back

2006-08-10T17:27:00.000-04:00

When I've come back to ministry from a mission trip I've had the same thoughts and feelings: We do a lot of meaningless things in our ministries. Meaningless compared to what students and I just did in Mexico with Amor Ministries. We gave people a house of their own in 5 days. Something they could lock and close the window on. Something the've never had before. In the average 5 days, what do we do to impact the world around us? Is there anything close to what we did in MX? How the heck do we change that? Most the people in my area have homes and food. Most have good jobs and nice cars. What do they really need? What do people on your block need? What do the people on the blocks around your church need?

may be silly

2006-08-10T17:21:00.000-04:00

If you subscribe and haven't just subscribed in the last two months, could you re-subscribe? I'm now using Feedburner, which will give stats for traffic, and number of substribers, stuff like that. I would like to have a real number of subscribers and I know that a few of you grabbed the feed when I first started it, maybe a year ago.

thanks for your help.

I'm away for a while...

2006-07-25T06:49:00.000-04:00

I'm doing this post from one of my leader's Blackberry. Headed to IYC then MX. See ya on the flip.

Emerging Churches 2.2

2006-07-08T23:45:00.000-04:00

continuing the series on the work of Eddie Gibbs and Ryan Bolger.

"Can Modern and Postmodern Congregations Exist within a Local Church?"
In the UK it seems that this can happen. There seems to be trouble with doing that so far in the US. Dan Kimball agrees, but he hopes that we can figure it out. [pg41] Kimball has say on his website that it's really up to the senior pastor being ok with the situation. and until that happens, emerging and modern can't be under the same roof long term.

So what do we do about that I interject? How do we transition our modern churches to minister better to the post-whatever world?

From the section "What are Emerging Chruches? on page 41
"For many within the movement, the emerging church is an umbrella that covers many diverse movements. In Johnny Baker's (Grace, London) opinion, emerging church is a catch all term. 'I quite like it for that. Church, as we have inherited it, is no longer working for vast groups of people. the world has change so much. So I think the term emerging church is nothing more than a way of expressing that we need new forms of church that relate to the emerging culture."

Baker's quote hits on the head for me.

So I'm done. I'm done with this Emerging Churches series. Why? I'm through the book. So now blogging feels like a make-up assignment that I did for a lower grade in high school. Oh you may have miss understood, I'm a high school pastor, not actually in high school.

So read the book if you want to understand more about the emergent church. They put a lot of hard work into it and I can't wait to read the follow up. Big-R over and out.

Emerging Churches 2.1

2006-07-08T23:41:00.000-04:00

continuing on the work of Eddie Gibbs and Ryan Bolger.

I've heard many say things like: Oh, it will be a differant thing than candles and rock music for the next generation." Interesting findings from the section on "Is the Emerging Church about generaltional approaches to church life?" In the mid 90s there was a shift for some from specific strategies for generations. There was a confernce for Gen-X minsitry put on by Young Leaders Network (YLN). they found that it wasn't standard "angst" from that generation. It was basic philisophical between ministry and culture. The conversations to follow eventually birthed the organization Emergent. Here's a quote from Todd Hunter [Yorba Linda, CA] "My big 'aha' moment was when it hit me: Everything I know about church is aboug Christendom and modernity and the baby boom, and all three of these are going away. These were the three eggs in my basket. So the issues were much deeper than adjusting services for Gen-X" (32).

On pages 33-39 there is an inderesting segmant on labels. First and formost in the postmodern world we don't know what's coming next. It's just post. It's after... what's next? Good question. Andrew Jones of Boaz in the UK has some good thoughts on it. "The goal is for us to put away lable tha excluede, to become more like Jesus and less evangelical, or become more like Jesus and less Protestent. Labels adn terms will always com bcakd to bite us." This quote from page 39 may hit home for some. "From a postmodern perspective, the ultimate question is , Why is it important to label oneself as evangelical? Aren't labels simply aritficial divisions that make us feel safe or help us exert control? Why not mine the riches of many traditions? What is obvious is that the ecclesiastical or theological label on decided to wear is of far less a concern to emerging churhes than how one relates to the gospel and culture."

Emerging Churches 2.0

2006-07-05T20:17:00.000-04:00

wow, this is such a slow series. I've decided to plug away despite my tardiness. [In school I was always the last kid out of the locker room.] I am continuing the look into Emerging Churches by Gibbs and Bolger. I will start with a great quote:

"The emerging church is being willing to take the red pill, going down the rabbit hole, and enjoying the ride. It is Dorothy not in Kansas anymore yet finding her way home. It is Superman braving kryptonite to embrace Krypton. It is sight seeking wider vision, relationships seeking expanded embrace, and spirituality seeking holistic practice. it's a "road of desination" where Christ followers, formerly of divergent pasts, are meeting up in the missional present and moving togetther toward God's future."
Karen Ward, Church of the Apostles, Seattle"
(pg 27)

The also point out that they found that emerging churches are not only youth churches and to equate them to that would we would be missing the point(pg28). they are communities of belivers that emerge from postmodern cultures. They are trying to follow Jesus in the place and time they are living. The go on to say that when dismantling occures many se that as a hatered, or atleast a lack of love for the church. This is a missread also(pg28). Some may see commentary on the church to be simply compalaining, but it's really part of stripping the church down to the essential elements that can transend cultural divide between modern and postmodern.

on Page 29 it seems they are letting us in on the why behind this book

"This present work seeks to present the key tenets of emerging church to a wider audiecen, tho those who man be awarae of it developement as well as to those who have some notion of significant changes afoot and are seeking further information and clarification. To those who are aware of, or count themselves a part of , the emerging church, it is our hope that this work will illuminate the familar, giving words to those who have an intuitive understanding that has yet to mature into critical reflection"

so if you were still wondering what this book is about, there it is.

I've decided to segment the chapters more so I don't have one massive post for each chapter.

Wow Scot

2006-07-05T19:18:00.000-04:00

In his post named Zealotry1 Scot McKnight brings out something that I've noticed about evengelicals and ChOG, which I hope you know aren't completely the same. [Been reading ChOGBlog lately?] Does this apply to the Holiness Manifesto, what do you think? Some challenging thoughts, check it out.

Update

Scot made a whole series on this:
Zealotry2, Zealotry3, Zealotry4, Zealotry5, Zealotry:A Danger, ...

2006-06-30T08:36:00.000-04:00

When I entered kindergarten, I was absolutely terrified. I had this elementary school anxiety problem that made me not want to attend, and it was so bad that it made me sick to my stomach. What compounded my anxiety was the fact that I had to play on the same playground with older kids. The older kids intimidated me. They were more experienced, were bigger in stature, and knew how to muscle their way to what they wanted, especially if a kindergardener stood in their way.

I just experienced the General Assembly meeting at Anderson this past week. I observed one patriarch of the CHOG talk about the past and how many GA meetings that he had been a part of. The stories were nice and the messenger is a very reveared person, even to me and my family. What insued through the rest of the 2 day meeting were people sharing how long they had been on the playground, I mean, attending GA. It was almost a huge Justice League of pastors showing their superpowers, and there was this air of intimidation.

What saddened me the most was a simple attempt to discuss something that was not on the Justice League's agenda. This was an idea that countered the obvious resolution that had been made to the GA. The idea was not a bad one, it actually made some sort of sense, but the movement and intimidation factor was so great, that the idea was a mere toot in the wind. I am no great business meeting mind, those types of meetings still intimidate even me at times, but I know when the bigger agenda wins.

We all still play on the same playground, but who let the bullies in?